Lecture at St. Tikhon’s University, Moscow (audio and transcript) 18 May 2011

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Translation and transcript

Gerry Armstrong

Gerry Armstrong

Gerry Armstrong 2011-05-18 7

Prof. Alexander Dvorkin

Alexander Dvorkin (AD): I’ll translate from here.

Gerry Armstrong (GA): And I say in English, Christ is risen.

AD: Indeed he is risen.

GA: You all know my name is Gerry Armstrong, and I’m here from Canada. This is my fourth visit to Russia.

I was in, first of all Nizhny Novgorod, Ekaterinburg, Novosibirsk and now Moscow, and actually this is my fourth trip to Moscow, because I flew in here and had experiences here before as well.

I just want to, first of all, correct something which was put in the announcement here in the University’s publication. To my knowledge, Scientology has never attempted to murder me. It’s very understandable that that would be reported because I have been assaulted six times, and they have threatened to assassinate me. But to my knowledge, they have never tried, and I’m here safely.

I wish to speak briefly tonight about an aspect of Scientology which makes the organization dangerous. And then I’ll attempt to explain why I’m here in Russia, another time.

Some of you may have seen a rather famous video of the most famous Scientologist, Tom Cruise. This was published on the Internet in 2008, and it was made by Tom Cruise at the time he received, in 2004, Scientology’s Freedom of Valor award. Tom talks about people that are referred to as “Suppressive Persons”, or “SPs.” And SPs, Scientology teaches, are the most evil, 2 1/2% of people on the planet. And Tom says he welcomes the day when there will be no SPs left on Earth. Scientology teaches that Suppressive Persons are basically equivalent to what are known in the psychology science as sociopaths or psychopaths. And Scientology teaches that they cannot be cured, and that they are responsible for all accidents, illness and every evil on Earth. I am an SP.


In truth, Scientology does not attack or go after real criminals, real psychopaths, real sociopaths. SPs or Suppressive Persons are simply ordinary people in every walk of life who tell the truth about Scientology. The Suppressive Person doctrine makes Scientology a criminal organization. The enforcement or application of the Suppressive Person doctrine is known by the name, “Fair Game.” The founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard wrote extensively about Suppressive Persons. When he wrote about it, he said in Scientology policy, which they call scripture, that SPs are fair game, they may be tricked, lied to, cheated, stolen from and destroyed. Scientology declared me an SP in early 1982 and have fair gamed me ever since.

Besides the physical assaults that I mentioned, I have been run into physically with a car, this was by an agent hired by Scientology. They terrorized my wife and me on a freeway in southern California, and they did similarly with myself and friends on an autobahn in Germany. They have sued me six times, driven me into bankruptcy. They’ve tried to have me prosecuted on false criminal charges, including with the FBI, the District Attorney in Los Angeles, and even the legal authorities in Ekaterinburg.

The Suppressive Person doctrine is used to terrorize Scientologists, keep them in a constant state of fear, and likewise to terrorize people like myself, who is outside the organization.

They have created and disseminated around the world a mass of what they call “black propaganda”. It was Hubbard’s practice and policy to destroy people’s reputations, credibility, livelihoods, relationships and their lives with black PR. And if you look up who Gerry Armstrong is on the Internet, you will find a mass of black PR about me. They disseminated black PR on me, calling me a criminal and worse right here in Russia, including to the FSB. And they also attempted to get the United States embassy here in Moscow to pick me up.

The Suppressive Person doctrine is what is used to justify the break-up of families. If Scientology declares someone a Suppressive Person, other Scientologists may not communicate to them, and pursuant to their policy, may not even grant them credence. There is an element in Scientology however, that does deal with Suppressive Persons, and they deal with them in an aggressive, criminal manner.

Scientology is actually at war. Because however, they cannot pick up guns, and cannot bomb us, just for fear of prosecution, much of their attacks on Suppressive Persons like myself are in secret, covert intelligence matters. One of the first things that a new Scientologist learns is that they are at war, and consequently, Scientologists virtually automatically know that they are to attack, to ruin the lives of any Suppressive Person. So, to me the Suppressive Person doctrine is unjustifiable. There is no excuse. It is indefensible.

The closest historical parallel would be the Nazi’s “Untermensch” doctrine. So the way that the Nazis treated the Jews is very similar to the way Scientology treats or would like to treat Suppressive Persons. The Suppressive Person doctrine justifies an endless array of immoral and criminal activities.

Scientology is under incredible pressure around the world and more and more people are becoming educated about the organization. I think that that can be evidenced just by the number of people here who have come to hear about the organization. Scientology cannot stop the spread of information now about its practices and about its intentions. As the pressure mounts on Scientology, also the risk, the threat, to individuals like me and to other people in society, mounts. And yet there is no choice but to keep talking and keep educating people, and keep spreading the word.

And I would like to thank all of you for coming here and for being willing to listen, and I hope and pray that you also spread the word.

I would like now to just touch on my legal situation and what brings me here specifically at this time. I am subject to an order in the United States which prohibits me from even saying the word, “Scientology.” How Scientology obtained that order is a very long story, but it essentially involves massive abuse of the legal process. And while I am prevented from saying the word “Scientology” or mentioning one word about my now-42 years of experience and knowledge about this organization, Scientology believes and the court has agreed with them, that they can say whatever they want about me, no matter how false or defamatory, and I cannot respond.

This order is on penalty of $50,000 per utterance. So this is a very valuable talk to you.

I am also subject to another order which permits Scientology to have me jailed and further fined for anything I say. I cannot talk about Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard, any Scientology organization, including all of their directors, officers, employees, volunteers, agents and attorneys. Similarly with Scientology’s affiliated organizations or entities such as their front groups Criminon, Narconon, Citizens Commission on Human Rights — that’s the organization that they use to attack psychiatry, their Volunteer Minister organization, their Way to Happiness   organization — “The Way to Happiness” is a little booklet that Scientology hands out at disaster sites. And similarly all of their directors, officers, employees, volunteers, agents and attorneys. So virtually every Scientologist here in Russia, it applies to them as well. This order also applies to anyone acting in concert with me.

So Dr. Dvorkin and his organization act in concert with me, and now St. Tikhon’s Orthodox University acts in concert with me. I have been invited, in fact, here on other occasions, by the Russian Orthodox Church. So I have your wonderful and massive church acting in concert with me.

This order, series of orders and judgments sound completely bizarre, but it is very real. And it is my hope to both do something about this order, these orders while I’m here, and to offer this extraordinary legal situation and my experience to Russia, who is standing up, to whatever degree, to Scientology.

The European Human Rights court has sided with Scientology, and my case, and my situation demonstrates that Scientology is a massive human rights abuser.

In that Scientology in the United States is considered a religion, and seeks here in Russia to be recognized as a religion, these orders would be equivalent to penalizing someone $50,000 per utterance for saying the name “God” or sending someone to jail for talking about his experiences or knowledge in the Christian religion.

And tomorrow I believe I will be speaking to the Russian Justice Department to offer them whatever assistance can be made of myself and my strange, extraordinary legal situation.

So I think, if it would be okay, I would like to open up the —

Maybe you should say a few words about your biography.

Oh, my biography, okay.

I got into Scientology in 1969 in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. And I was brought in, in the same way that Scientology lures everyone in: promises of increased intelligence quotient or IQ. Scientology promises that IQ’s will go up, on average, 1 point per hour of their therapy, their psychotherapy called auditing. IQ is something which is measurable and is a secular matter, not a religious matter. I had over a thousand hours of Scientology auditing. (Laughs) You can tell, right? (Laughs) But at least I acquired sufficient smarts to be able to leave the organization.

In 1971, I joined what is known as the Sea Organization. This is the organization, the part of Scientology which runs it around the world. Also in early 1971, I was sent to the ship which L. Ron Hubbard was on, the Apollo. At that time, we were in Morocco, and we sailed up and down the Moroccan coast and to Portugal, and Spain and the little Atlantic islands, Madeira, the Canaries. I started off on board washing dishes. I became the storesman briefly, and then I became the ship’s driver, the driver of a little car which we had on board.

Beginning of 1972, I became the ship’s legal officer. I was responsible for customs, immigration, police. The port authorities, tug boats, I hired them. I then became the public relations officer, and then in 1974, I became the ship’s intelligence officer. At that time, because of difficulties we were having in Europe, the ship sailed across the Atlantic and we spent the next year in the Caribbean.

Hubbard was on board during most of those years. He was off the ship briefly in 1973 because he was convicted of fraud in France. In 1975, the ship’s complement came ashore in Florida, and I was close to Hubbard at the time. I was then handling his communications.

I was sent on a mission from Florida to Los Angeles to set up a base. I got in an argument with his wife’s, Mary Sue Hubbard’s, secretary. Hubbard had me locked up, and then assigned me to Scientology’s prison system, the Rehabilitation Project Force, or RPF. The existence of these RPF re-education camps is a reason why every country should warn their citizens about this organization. I spent 17 months in the RPF at that time. I got out and was transferred again to California, to work with Hubbard shooting movies. And again he assigned me to the RPF, this time for joking. He got the idea that I was joking about his movie-making. In fact, I was not. As I can see you are all able to laugh. Inside Scientology it was a crime to laugh about the wrong thing. I stayed 8 months at that time in the RPF, and then, when I got out, I worked in Hubbard’s Household Unit at a new base that they had bought in Gilman Hot Springs, California. Gilman Hot Springs is the current headquarters of Scientology. The present leader, David Miscavige, lives there.

At the beginning of 1980, there was a threat of a raid. I understood what that meant, because the Federal Bureau of Investigation had raided Scientology in 1977, and 11 of its intelligence personnel were charged in United States Federal Court, convicted and sentenced to prison. There was a constant threat and awareness wherever I was in Scientology, of a raid by police or other authorities. And at that time, everyone was ordered to destroy any documents which showed that Hubbard had been to the property, that he intended to live there, that he controlled Scientology or controlled Scientology finances. In this search for documents which incriminated Hubbard, one of my juniors discovered a box of very old material in his personal archive.

She brought this box to me and I decided that it should not be destroyed because of its historical value. And then we discovered approximately 20 boxes of similar material in Hubbard’s personal effects.

I petitioned Hubbard to then assemble an archive of his personal documents and do the research for a biography. Ironically, Hubbard approved my petition, and I spent the next 2 years assembling this archive and working with an outside non-Scientologist writer by the name of Omar Garrison.

During the course of my research and study of his personal documents, I deprogrammed myself. And I documented that he had lied about virtually every aspect of his life. He claimed for example to be a civil engineer and a nuclear physicist, and this was very significant to me. It was what was in Scientology advertisements which brought me in and kept me there for all those years. He and Scientology claimed that he had been crippled and blinded during the Second World War. He claimed to have been awarded 27 medals, including 2 Purple Hearts.

He lied about his family, he lied about his wives, and he lied about explorations which he had claimed. So he was not a civil engineer, not a nuclear physicist. He flunked out of his second year of university. Regarding medals, he received 4 standard service medals. He was not crippled and blinded. He was never wounded in action. He in fact was a malingerer.

Importantly, when I began to see that Hubbard was virtually a pathological liar, the whole of Scientology fell apart for me. I had to confront the fact that Scientology does not work. As I mentioned, my IQ did not go up 1 point. I didn’t have any of the promised super powers, and I had to confront the fact that I had wasted all those years, and also confront the fact that now I was going to have this aggressive, criminal organization, target me.

So I made plans and escaped. If I had not escaped, I would have again been locked up, and because of my state of mind at that time, and my firm opposition to Scientology, I would have been kept there and killed. But I did successfully escape and, as I knew would happen, Scientology immediately targeted me. In addition to assaulting me, which I’ve mentioned, they have sued me six times. The first case in which they sued me went to trial in Los Angeles in 1984. This is a very famous judgment in which the judge condemned fair game as a practice and declared Hubbard to be a pathological liar.

Scientology could not stop attack however, but have continued to this day to consider me a major enemy.


(Question and Answer period)

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD:About ruining families, how did Hubbard explain that he had several wives. How did he explain it to other people if he was so much for the good family? How come he himself couldn’t have one?

GA: I think the answer is obvious. He was a liar, and Scientologists are liars. Scientology claims, as Hubbard claimed, to have the technology to improve family relations. But, in truth, they break up families. Hubbard broke up families and he broke up his own family.

Hubbard’s second marriage was bigamous. He kidnapped the daughter of his second marriage and took off with her to Cuba in 1951. And then he denied his paternity and blamed someone else for being her father. And I met that daughter, and she of all of his 7 children, looked most like him.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD:Is there a connection between Scientology and Masons?

GA: I don’t believe there is a connection, direct connection between Scientology, but there is a definite connection between Scientology and occultism. During the time when Hubbard claimed that he had already started Scientology, he was involved with one John W. Parsons, who was a devotee of Aleister Crowley. And Aleister Crowley is the founder of the Ordo Templi Orientis, which is a black magic occult group.

It is certain that there are aspects of occultism in Scientology. Hubbard of course claimed that Scientology is scientific in its basis, but the real source of Scientology is occultism.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: How Scientology is dangerous for Scientologists and how did it lure people in?

GA:It’s dangerous to an individual psychologically. It alters the human psyche, replaces the extremely valuable human conscience with Hubbard’s system. It’s dangerous to families, which I’ve mentioned. It’s dangerous to finances. It is dangerous to people outside, which I mentioned, like myself. It’s dangerous to the social order. It’s dangerous to nations. It’s dangerous to businesses.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: Now, in Russia, we can often hear that the United States has an exemplary democratic state and exemplary judicial state. So how is it possible, in such an exemplary state, such a wild decision against you, and could it be explained by a very high degree of corruption?

GA: It is explained by a high degree of public relations and also by a high degree of corruption that the public relations covers.

Very importantly, the United States has a completely different view of religious freedom than what Europe and we recognize. Freedom of religion in the United States has come to mean freedom for the religious corporation to suppress and destroy the religious freedoms of its individuals.

There was a judgment in fact, last year, in 2010, in which the court ruled that Scientology was free to lock people up, and if they escaped, go back and bring them back and lock them up. And the basis for that is because it is the religious doctrine of the corporation to do so. So it’s quite easy to understand why Scientology chose to be a religion, so that it can get away with abusing people and other human rights abuses. That’s another case that I hope to speak to the Justice Ministry about.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: But maybe you should also tell about support of Scientology by the Government of the United States as of 1993. Will you say a few words?

GA: The United States Federal Government for many years opposed Scientology and, in fact, as I mentioned, raided Scientology’s intelligence bureaus in 1977. And until 1993, denied Scientology tax exemption. But for a number of reasons, in 1993, the federal government made a strategic decision to quit opposing Scientology, and to make an ally of Scientology. And since 1993, they have promoted and defended Scientology around the world. I believe that this was a strategic decision made by the US intelligence community.

I may have mentioned Scientology at its core and in operation is a massive intelligence organization. They obtain and use intelligence from all levels of society. From their own personnel during the auditing process, each person divulges their innermost secrets, their innermost thoughts, their whole sexual history, details about their families, anything embarrassing, anything for which they could be prosecuted. All of this information, details, are written down or otherwise recorded.

Scientology equates that process with the process that you know of confession. But the people to whom the confession is made, the auditor, do not keep those secrets secret. That information is provided to Scientology’s intelligence and enforcement arms, attorneys, any way that Scientology can use it.

Additionally, Scientology’s intelligence personnel seek data, information, intelligence from every stratum of society. From government, police, businesses, the entertainment industry, medical organizations, schools, everything. The flow of information that Scientology obtains on a daily basis is massive. And so it’s very easy to see why the United States would want to have Scientology as an ally, rather than working against them.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: And you should mention that all this information flows one way. The orders come from Los Angeles and …

GA: The orders in Scientology all come from Los Angeles, and the flow of intelligence information all goes to Los Angeles. So it’s very easy to see why the United States would defend and promote Scientology around the world, and in so doing turn its back on Scientology’s victims.

The federal government knows about my case and it is indeed a problem for them. So, for me, the threat is really not only from Scientology, but from the US federal government and its intelligence tentacles.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: First question: As you went to Scientology, probably you were looking for the truth, so now, after all these years in Scientology and after Scientology,the picture of the world that you had was totally ruined. So what now? How do you see the world now? And what is the truth for you today?

Second question: You partially answered it … So, in Scientology, when we want to use a person, I understand I have to compromise him several times in order to turn him into a slave of the organization. So I would like to learn what kind of hooks they use in order to make men its slave.

Russia also has secret services, Aren’t you afraid that they might somehow want to use your information, to recruit you, or eventually to recruit you, or something?

That was a strange question.

So first question about your world view and, second, aren’t you afraid to be recruited by Russian secret services?

GA: Since I left Scientology, I have indeed sought the truth and I have found that the truth is within me. I became a Christian, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. God is Truth. So, I now know that I was kept safe, throughout my whole experience in Scientology, throughout all of these years as fair game. And not by anything that I did, but by what God did in me.

Regarding the FSB, for example, I would welcome an opportunity to speak to them. I doubt that they would recruit me. I think that I am probably too independent thinking and I, some time ago, I gave up the idea of intelligence, that is espionage, completely. So I do not get involved in schemes or secret machinations, but again I would welcome to talk to them. I must trust that they have the interest of the country as their first directive, so in that sense, we share to a small degree, a common enemy. And I would hope that if they did contact me, that they would use my information, my situation, judiciously to help Russia and Russians. I am not an intelligence operative and I could not be one. Thank you for excellent questions.

Audience member (translated by AD):

My name is Sergey, and I have two questions. If not secret, what will you talk about tomorrow with the Ministry of Justice? (laughter and applause)

Second question: how widespread is Scientology in Russia? How can it be dangerous to Russia and why would Scientology be interested in the Russian people?

GA: As I understand, the first question had to do with the Ministry of Justice.

AD: What exactly are you going to talk there about?

GA: I am going to talk … Really, I hope to answer all of their questions, but I will be talking about legal matters. I mentioned that Russia has legal matters concerning Scientology in the European Court of Human Rights. And, as I also mentioned, there are many individuals in Russia and organizations in Russia which act in concert with me. My goal is to have my legal situation, as it affects me and others, end, but while it is going on, to make as much use of it as possible.

What was the second part?

AD: The history of Scientology in Russia and why Scientology would be interested in Russia.

GA: I probably do not have as much information as maybe even you have about Scientology in Russia. But when the Soviet Union broke apart, there was a flood of Scientologists and other cults from the West, into Russia. In a sense, Russia at that point became fair game for Scientology. Russia had to some extent been cut off from knowledge about organizations like Scientology. And consequently, Scientology expanded in Russia and spread rather rapidly. Scientology always lies about its membership. For decades it has been claiming to be the world’s fastest growing religion. Just today, Dr. Dvorkin had some statistics that Scientology claimed about its membership here.

AD (adding after Russian translation): They claim 125,00 followers in Moscow (laughter), 500,000 in Russia.

GA: So behind Scientology’s spread, there is now a spread of information. And as this crowd here evidences, people are becoming educated about this cult. And Russia is already a civilized, educated country. So, my prediction would be that education here will beat Scientology. The mass of material on the Internet at this point makes it virtually impossible for Scientology to get what it wants, which is total control.

Consequently, Scientology is expanding now, into third world countries. And that’s another area of serious danger. And the dangers of Scientology are really what I already articulated. They are dangers to the individual, dangers to family, danger to democracy, danger to society, danger to the nation. And all of those dangers have to be recognized to really deal with Scientology as a threat.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: Today, how many people … are there more people like you who decide to leave the cult and to fight it?   And are there any programs for rehabilitation for ex-Scientologists?

GA: I left at the end of 1981. And at that time there were very few people who were speaking out. Now, I would say that the numbers have multiplied considerably, but Scientology is still able to silence people who leave. They silence them by legal means, by threat, by holding over them connections to their families and friends who are still inside. Scientology also runs covert operations in order to compromise people who leave, and even sets up its own phony organizations which pretend to offer help to victims of Scientology.

So, in a sense, there are more people speaking out. The Internet is full of critical material about Scientology. In the last three years, there have been four very critical books written about Scientology. And those are all by people who were highly placed and left recently. I look at it this way, that Scientology is still an incredible threat, but the result is in the balance, so that they have neither won nor lost.

But all signs, to me, point toward Scientology’s power being removed and that Scientologists are on the wrong side of this battle. And when things are in a balance like this, just a little poke can move that, a little word can have a great effect.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: Could you tell a little bit more about the Rehabilitation Project Force that you talked about, those camps?

GA: Hubbard created the Rehabilitation Project Force in the beginning of 1974. People were assigned to it if he viewed them as non-producers, that is, they didn’t work hard enough. And people could be assigned for a simple movement of the needle on an E-Meter.

AD (in Russian): Describes the E-Meter for the audience.

GA: And in reality, people were assigned completely arbitrarily. If Hubbard detected a smell that he didn’t like, the person who created that smell could be sent to the RPF. The sentences to the RPF were not pronounced in terms of years, but you had to work your way through a program that could take many years.

RPF members did hard, dirty physical work. They received 1/4 of the pay of regular Scientology Sea Org members.

So when I was assigned, at that time, I was then getting $17.20 a week. And in the RPF I received $4.30 a week.

RPF members were not allowed to talk to other crew members unless they were spoken to. They had to run everywhere. They wore black boiler suits everywhere. For the slightest infraction, they had to run up and down stairs and perform other physical punishment. And they were subjected to endless hours of what are called security checks. And that’s when the E-Meter is used as a lie detector. The whole purpose of the RPF was to break the will of someone who is assigned.

If someone objected to the RPF, or for some other minor infraction, they could be assigned to the RPF’s RPF, which was an even more degrading experience. The person was guarded fulltime and could not speak. And this could go on for an indeterminate amount of time. Anyone who wanted to leave was locked up.

The RPF ate after the rest of the Sea Org crew ate, whatever was left. So it was meant to be a degrading experience.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: You were recruited in 1969 and, in 1971, you were intelligence officer, though you started as a dishwasher, so what kind of special gifts you had that Hubbard liked you so much, appointed you to such a high …?

GA: I was actually the intelligence officer beginning in 1974. And I really don’t know why, except that I was very compliant, and I had basic street sense, street smarts, and I had been, by that time, I had been inside for 5 years, and had, in that capacity, already dealt with outside people in my capacity as Legal Officer and then Public Relations Officer.

I knew how to write, and I had very high test scores, so I think that Hubbard and his people took these things into account. They needed somebody and, by a series of ironies, they decided on me. At that time too, I also had an affinity for intelligence, so I was not a security risk. And I think I was simply in either the right or the wrong place at the right or wrong time, depending on how you look at it.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: Do you have some sense of disappointment that, perhaps you had your own plans for life, your own kind of ideas, and then you kind of spent all your life fighting against Scientology? Is there a sense of disappointment and, perhaps, there is no time for you to look more into Christianity? Is there a kind of disappointment that your life was somehow wasted fighting Scientology?

GA: When I reflect on it, there are times when, naturally, I have some regret about the precarious situation that I’m in. But when I reflect a little deeper, I have to be grateful for the experience that I was given, and the opportunity that I have even now. It is something that no one has to do. You don’t have to go to prison to experience freedom, but at the same time, you can get out of the prison experience something that is valuable and, in this case, something which can help others so they don’t have to do it. So in that sense, I don’t consider that my life is a total waste.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: Are there social networks on the Internet that are created by Scientology and supported by Scientology?

GA: Yes there are. Scientology has a very large Internet presence. It has agents on the Internet. It hires outside professionals, computer Internet security professionals, and they use the Internet to attack their opponents. But the Internet is a great leveling of the battlefield. And because Scientology’s opposition has truth on its side, then ultimately the Internet and all forms of communication assist the opposition more than they assist Scientology.

AD: But, Gerry, the question was, you know, social networks like Twitter, or something, I’m not very familiar with them, but you know there are social networks where people communicate. Are there such things created by Scientology?

GA: I don’t think that they have separate networks. But they use those networks, they use those forums.   They have their in house network, which is not accessible. So they are connected themselves.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: Since you saw the documents of Hubbard, what’s more in Hubbard’s personal diaries. Is it more Satanism and occultism coming from Parsons or more “science fiction” fantasies of Hubbard himself? That’s the first question.

Second question: Apparently, he [audience member]says Scientology spends about half of its budget for legal matters, legal issues, to fight its opponents, and he says that Scientology puts a lot of money into recruiting legal students in Russia. So, what’s your assessment, you know, how much they spend on recruitment?

GA: The documents that I had possession of, and many of them were entered into evidence in the first case in which Scientology sued me, they do expose Hubbard’s occult past, his occult writings. And there were some very important documents like that which affected me greatly. These were documents which are often called Affirmations or Admissions. This is a record that Hubbard kept in which he programmed himself. And he writes such things as “Men are my slaves.” So they are the writing of a person who is trying to program power into himself. It’s an occult practice. And the documents also expose his relationship with Parsons and Crowley. They expose his own considerations about his sexual prowess and sexual inadequacy. There is evidence there of his drug consumption, and even while he was on the ship many years after this, he was dosing himself with testosterone. In my observation, that’s how he maintained his aggressive nature, and his bulk. He was a very big, bulky man, but he gave the signs of someone who was taking hormones.

His science fiction sort of writings appear in what are called the OT or Operating Thetan levels. He was, of course, a science fiction writer during the time he was starting Scientology. And even during the last eight years, nine years of his life, he wrote more science fiction. In fact he turned, you may know the Xenu story, but he turned that story into a novel and a screenplay. He gave it the title “Revolt in the Stars” and he attempted to have a movie made with his screenplay. I had the job, just after I was out of the RPF in December 1977, I had the task of editing and proofreading the 2 manuscripts.

He also, you probably know, wrote “Battlefield Earth”, which was turned into one of the world’s worst movies. And then he wrote, just towards the end of his life, the book “Mission Earth”, which was divided into 10 books. There are aspects of science fiction and his science fiction fantasies which go throughout Scientology. Right in Scientology scripture, there are stories of the Marcabians, the Fifth Invaders, the Fourth Invaders, but in the personal archive documents which I had possession of, they were not concerned with science fiction of that nature, but definitely dealt with his occult period, his occult practices.

Did I answer?

Audience member (in Russian): Thank you very much.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: So then about Scientology programs. If they spend half of their budget for fighting the opponents, then how much is left for recruitment?

GA: Okay, I do not believe that they spend anywhere near half of their budget on legal matters. Just on me, they have probably spent $5 million on legal fees. And they do maintain a network of highly priced lawyers around the world. I had not before considered what you said about them recruiting among legal students, but that makes a lot of sense, and I could believe that they would have a program like that. They do spend a lot of money on marketing. They just purchased a massive printing and publishing company in Los Angeles. They just purchased an operating television station in Los Angeles. They already had a fairly large film studio and, of course, they have connections into virtually all the film studios in Hollywood. And the amount of publishing that they do is enormous. But I do not know the specifics of their budget.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: So for a long time you knew Hubbard. So what was he like in personal relationship and how did he treat people who surrounded him?

GA: Everyone who was close to him, who worked with him, kept him in a degree of awe. He could be very charming. He was certainly charismatic, almost hypnotic. At the same time he had a hair-trigger anger, and if he was displeased in any way, he could become violent in a flash.

There was a study which was done within the last few years of his personality, and he was identified as a malignant narcissist. So he was ruthless regarding anyone who crossed him in any way.

Now I see him as a gargantuan liar. That was the key aspect of his personality and the way he dealt with people and the way he handled problems in life. When everything is added up, I see him, from my study, and my understanding of psychology, as a rather classic sociopath. And he got many people under his spell. But when you broke from his spell, then he became a violent enemy.

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: You said that, in 1993, America changed, began to cooperate with Scientology. Can you tell in detail what happened then, how did it happen and who was responsible for this decision? Do you have any names perhaps?   It could be that even the President of the US at that time was …

GA: Clinton.

AD: …was responsible?

(Question from the audience in Russian)

AD: So he [audience member] asked about Russia. He said, “Well, you asked me later about Russia.”

GA: Up until 1993, the IRS, the Internal Revenue Service, had denied Scientology tax exemption. Scientology or Scientologists under the direction of Scientology had filed over 2,000 lawsuits against the IRS. Each one of those lawsuits would require an attorney be assigned from the US Justice Department. So, it was costing the federal government an incredible amount of money to defend these lawsuits. Litigation in the United States is very costly, so when the IRS granted tax exemption, Scientology dismissed all these lawsuits. So that’s one factor.

Scientology as I mentioned, is an intelligence organization. They were investigating everyone in the IRS. They were recruiting whistleblowers.

AD: Whistleblowers? Like private investigators?

GA: Former IRS employees who had information which was damaging to the IRS. They had private investigators investigating the IRS. And I don’t have any specific information about what they found on IRS agents or the people who control the IRS, but there’s a great deal of speculation that they had damaging information on the Director of the IRS and other IRS agents.

So that’s a second factor.

And the third factor has to do with the US intelligence community seeing this as a strategic decision which benefited the United States because it would potentially create an alliance which would–there is a friendly relationship and a contractual relationship between Scientology and the IRS. So there’s the opportunity which I mentioned for a flow of intelligence between Scientology to the IRS to the federal government. There are Scientology high tech firms which are involved in communication security. They are the kind of firms that the federal government would like to have on their side.

So all of these factors add up to that decision, and, of course, all national governments form alliances with very unsavory countries, unsavory dictators, and the US has certainly done that historically, so this is not a particularly exceptional strategic decision to make.

What is exceptional about it is that it further victimizes the US’s own citizens.

AD: All about the person. At what level this decision was taken. Was the President responsible?

GA: Well, on paper at least, the decision was made by the Director of the IRS. But it is also known that the President at the time, Bill Clinton, had a very friendly relationship with Scientology. And the Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, under Bill Clinton, acted for Scientology. The decision is so important that it seems impossible that the President didn’t know, or that the intelligence community didn’t know, the FBI didn’t know, the CIA didn’t know. The only thing that makes sense is that they all knew, they all agreed. They all came to that decision.

AD: I think that was the last question.


Vice-Rector, Father Georgiy Orekhanov (in Russian, translated by AD):

I think it will be a common opinion that today’s meeting had a unique character. We received a very unique person. And we all became his friends, with all the consequences following it.

(Laughter followed by applause)

And we’ll be very happy to have you as our guest as often as possible each time you will come to Russia. Thank you very much for your exciting story and for answering questions.   And welcome to St. Tikhon’s!


GA: Thank you, and thank you all.

2:12 -End-